Rad Valves or V force?

[flotek]

check the link" Odaen " posted i n the first page of thsi thread .

[ATC330Rrider]

I see a chart with "claims" of flow, but did not see any dyno sheets. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I see these arguments all the time and have never seen any proof that one is better than the other.

[flotek]

boysens arent in there, but they are not nearly as good as Delta vforce form what ive tried and seen ,

[ATC330Rrider]

doesn't that seem odd that Boyesen would be left off the list? FMF is on it?!?!?! And who the he!! is Carbontec? (I know who they are, but it is not as big an name as Boyesen) Boyesen is one of the oldest names in the business and that wasn't included in the comparison? Weird. I would be most curious about that one because the rad valve is the only one piece block. All the rest use the stock intake which I found to be small. obstructive and constrictive.

I have to be honest, I run a rad valve because I was able to port it to my needs. I have matched my reed block to the exact measurement of the carb for as smooth as possible flow from the carb to the reedblock. As it states in my mod list, I run a modified KX500 valve which gives me about 3mm more volume at the reed. I then run carbon fiber reeds to combat the "large petal" problem. I don't expect my exact combination to be on the dyno run. I, however, am surprised that the rad valve was left off the list. hmmm.

[crazyracer]

man, that dyno chart is dumb as hell!!!! Sure V-force may be the best at from 6,500 to 11,000rpm...but anyone in their right damn mind knows that our quad don't normally run at those levels. Heck, i think a trx250r with a stock CDI is capable of running 7500 (absolute max) before it looses all power. My mind won't ever be settled if people keep posting these Dyno charts that are based on Indy Car motors, not the real thing.

[flotek]

Originally Posted by crazyracer

man, that dyno chart is dumb as hell!!!! Sure V-force may be the best at from 6,500 to 11,000rpm...but anyone in their right damn mind knows that our quad don't normally run at those levels. Heck, i think a trx250r with a stock CDI is capable of running 7500 (absolute max) before it looses all power. My mind won't ever be settled if people keep posting these Dyno charts that are based on Indy Car motors, not the real thing.

this isnt an indy car crazy racer, this is simply a modifed banshee engine perfectly capable of those rpms . the reed sytem is not rocket science technology .its an unnessecary evil used to stop back flow charge /pressure into the carbs and stil l allow intake charge to enter the cylinders ,by design the vforce literally has twice the flowing reed surface as the other designs .another way to get by this surface area is to run very thin reeds material like carbon tech or TDR reeds ,which work almost as good but dont hold up on higly modded engines. yo ucan carve ,grind and shape and modify the boots, manifolds ,and wings in your aftermarket cages all yo u want but the reed surface area and reed material is whats gonna give yo u the added gains youd likely experiance. the boysens arent on the chart but i ve ran most all these (including rad valves) and theirs a reason the vforce are used by all top draggers and racers ,because they flow the most and are simply the best yo u can buy hands down . but thats not saying theres no gains i n the other aftermarket cages ,some of them are probably close to the performance of vforce reeds .

[fiveOnick]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

this isnt an indy car crazy racer, this is simply a modifed banshee engine perfectly capable of those rpms . the reed sytem is not rocket science technology .its an unnessecary evil used to stop back flow charge /pressure into the carbs and stil l allow intake charge to enter the cylinders ,by design the vforce literally has twice the flowing reed surface as the other designs .another way to get by this surface area is to run very thin reeds material like carbon tech or TDR reeds ,which work almost as good but dont hold up on higly modded engines. yo ucan carve ,grind and shape and modify the boots, manifolds ,and wings in your aftermarket cages all yo u want but the reed surface area and reed material is whats gonna give yo u the added gains youd likely experiance. the boysens arent on the chart but i ve ran most all these (including rad valves) and theirs a reason the vforce are used by all top draggers and racers ,because they flow the most and are simply the best yo u can buy hands down . but thats not saying theres no gains i n the other aftermarket cages ,some of them are probably close to the performance of vforce reeds .

That was an unbiased dyno test that Kevin Gigot was kind enough to conduct to show real time results. And yes thats a godamn banshee dyno sheet and thats where they make power when slightly modified. Shit, why do you even need a dyno to prove it, anyone should be able to tell the V-force has more flow potential. It has double the surface area, so it can have stiffer reeds that can open half the distance of a normal valve to flow the same volume of fuel. What does that =unmatched flow potential, unmatched over rev potential. Now there is nothing wrong with a rad valve, they flow real nice. Number 2 in my book, but they do not have the response that a V-force setup has. They can't, physics wont allow for it to flow more and respond better. Actually wont allow for equal.

[odaen]

Originally Posted by crazyracer

man, that dyno chart is dumb as hell!!!! Sure V-force may be the best at from 6,500 to 11,000rpm...but anyone in their right damn mind knows that our quad don't normally run at those levels. Heck, i think a trx250r with a stock CDI is capable of running 7500 (absolute max) before it looses all power. My mind won't ever be settled if people keep posting these Dyno charts that are based on Indy Car motors, not the real thing.

keep telling yourself that, maybe it helps you sleep at night, along with the visions of the tooth fairie and santa claus. i just checked out 1dir's site again, and I didn't see any disclaimers about your "indy" motor application. funny, but now i'm all giddy knowing that I have an 'indy" motor too. i'm glad that I didn't fall victim to their website marketing hype since my motor falls outside of their scope......."MORE FLOW = MORE GO!" LMFAO. Not only are those guys pioneers in the art of selling shit they don't design themselves, but they also have time for atv poetry. maybe someone should let smkmupbanshee know that, since 1dir just allegedly built one of these indy motors and guess what? he put them g3 reeds in it.


seriously, if you have any question whatsoever with RAD vs vForce, give some 250R builders some calls and ask them. I was asking my builder about getting my buddy's 250R rebuilt and discussed reed valves, and he was surprised how much he picked up with the vForce3's over a RAD valve. Dave Moore also has a good deal of experience with 250R's, and I'm pretty confident he'll be more than honest with you. Patriot Racing would be a another good source. One thing I can almost guarantee you is that if you asked them what they recommended to run for reeds, it would not be 1dir G3 reeds.

[odaen]

sometimes, I carry things too far, and I apologize, crazyracer. so, as a token of my good will, I thought I'd offer up something that I had noticed, but never gave you feedback on. there's a serious mistake in your sig file. "1 Dir Racing SCT intake" is not in bold, which to most users might indicate they don't make as much of a difference in the performance of your bike as your

1 Dir racing G3Power Curve Reeds and spacer
1 Dir Racing Front Shocks. Zero Preload
1 Dir Racing/Kehin 38mm A.S. carb with boost jet

[crazyracer]

SCT intake isn't bold simply because it isn't installed currently. I am doing a couple tests with 2 different reed styles...one set with SCT and one without. I shouldn't even have that in my profile i guess if i'm not currently running it, but i'm to lazy to take it back off the list. Once ice racing gets going (close....4 inches currently) then i will be running the intake with my carb and boost jet and i believe i am going with the medium stiffness carbon fiber reeds.

O, btw, anyone who said that boost jet was unnecessary for a low modded 250r of my caliber was wrong. I can tune that boost jet in to "Hit" at different rpm ranges, and it basically alters my power curve completely. I run a richer main jet and a leaner boost setting for the MX tracks, but for ice i will be running a leaner main jet, with a very rich boost setting. This will deliver much more of a hit when i come out of turns 2 and 4 and it really pulls hard for the entire straight. It fun to play with the setting and feel the diff.

Back to the reed/reed cage issue. Many people that i know have never even heard of 1 dir racing, so the reason they run V-force isn't because they have tested all of the competitors and are running the Best...but because they don't know of other alternatives. I'm not going to sit here and argue that dyno, i simply didn't know that modified banshees were capable of those pwr and rpm ranges. However, the more i talk to people about racing, the more i find that banshee owners tend to use V-force reeds, and many 250r owners run Carbon Tech reeds. (Yes, that is the majority of "A" class 250 riders in my area.) What I still don't understand is you guys say that V-force offers "twice" the surface area, but how the hell can they do that when V-force, Carbon Tech, and G3 reed cages all look almost identical? It comes down to what your particular bike runs the best on, and how much you pay for the reeds.

For me however, i run G3 reeds, not just because they are cheaper and fast as hell on my bike, but because i can call and talk to Will, or Chris and they will take time out of their day to help me with shock tuning, carb settings, tire pressure issues (run nitrogen instead of air to decrease inflation when racing), and engine modding. When you buy G3 reeds, you don't buy just reeds, you get the support of the people who make the reeds too. Can you acutally say that for V-force?