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Dr.Q vs. Jerry Hall LT500 Pipe Comparison

37K views 84 replies 24 participants last post by  monsterbug 
#1 ·
I thought I would list these dyno runs here to show a couple of things: 1. Dr Q is not the #1 LT500 guy out there and 2. Pipe development is a long, slow, and expensive process. Matt Shearer spent a lot of time on his "new" OOF SB banshee pipes and it shows! I hope Jim Smart of Passion has the same success with his "new" pipes as well. Hats off to the guys who put in a TON of time so we can have a little more HP.

Jerry Hall has spent over 5 years on the LT500 pipe development and is now on pipe #19.

Here are a few dyno runs that compare the Hall LT500 pipe to the Dr. Q pipe. For the record, the Q pipe is the 2nd best pipe out there for the LT500. It was hard to find a ture apples to apples comparison but this info. is pretty darn good for the LT500 guys.

The first graph compares the Q pipe to Hall's #14 pipe. Hall's is the blue graph. This is a ported LT500 (not by Hall).



http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/cgblock/?action=view&current=LT500Pipe14vsQ.jpg


The 2nd graph is of the Q pipe vs. the #16 Hall pipe. Each pipe got 2 back to back runs so you see 4 graphs. The green and purple are the #16 Hall LT500 pipe. These are on a Hall ported "Duner".


http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/cgblock/?action=view&current=LT500DunerPipe16vsQ.jpg

The last graph shows the Hall pipes #16, #17, #18, and #19 in that order on a Hall drag ported LT500 on gas.


http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=LT500pipecomp16vs17vs18vs19.jpg
 
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#2 ·
Been hearing alot of good feedback about these pipes, good to see other options for the 500zilla riders!
Who did the motor work & dyno runs?

:welcome: to E2S!



 
#7 · (Edited)
Because i raced your buddy on his Banshee and beat him, then you got on your buddies Banshee and cleaned house on me! Your friend doesnt like anyone to line up within 15 feet of him.

HAHAHA


And those #'s must be some older #'s.. Because on his small reed motor, running his pipe, the numbers are in the mid to upper 70hp range. And around 56ftlb of torque.. And his large reed motors are in the solid mid to upper 80's with a better over all torque range/curve




 
#12 ·
Because i raced your buddy on his Banshee and beat him, then you got on your buddies Banshee and cleaned house on me! Your friend doesnt like anyone to line up within 15 feet of him.

HAHAHA


And those #'s must be some older #'s.. Because on his small reed motor, running his pipe, the numbers are in the mid to upper 70hp range. And around 56ftlb of torque.. And his large reed motors are in the solid mid to upper 80's with a better over all torque range/curve





Yeah, these are not the "best" representation of Hall's work. I was just trying to give a "fair" pipe shootout. These are the best comparisons I could find with the Hall pipe and "Nurse Q" pipe.


Too funny on recognizing me. That was a "good" weekend at Glamis! Now, for the record, my buddy "claims" you lined up too close in the first race and he "had" to back off. He claims he got you on the second race. I think we need a rematch for sure. I love the friendly rivalry.
 
#9 ·
Also, get those dynos off of there... Don't want anyone to know the secrets and who to go to in order to make these old dinosaurs to run!

Can you imagine if i showed up on a Banshee with all your "Jerry Secrets" wrapped up into my build with $1,000 bills painted on!


HAHAHAHAHA
 
#13 ·
That is sooooooooo true!!!
I wish more people understood that. Too many people say they are a 2-stroke "motor builder" and can't design an exhaust pipe. That just doesn't make sense. I think it goes to show the untapped potential with the motors.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Would love to rematch you guys! You 2 seemed real cool and we had a good time running you guys (except Dale.. hahaha)!

How long ago did you get Dale's race bike #'s from Jerry?


Also your buddy was a cool dude, but was he wanting to race a block away from me? He was lined up in the only spot of the hill without woops. When i was lining up, i saw this and thought i would try to get 2 tires in the same line! hahaha

What was the deal of you racing a banshee on the steep hill on the back of Olds? You destroyed that Banshee! I thought the guy was a Builder also.
 
#16 ·
My buddy is a little careful to say the least. He is the kind of guy that runs 3 locks on every door.
March 4th of this year on the drag bike.

I felt bad for the other builder. He was really cool so I didn't want to mention his name. Funny thing is that I have video of it all. I made a killer video. PM me if you want to have a copy. I do all my movies on dvd. I need something to keep me busy in these Arizona "Hot" months. You may not like my "edited" version though. LOL
 
#25 ·
Two Questions and one controll issue. Why was the Q pipe not run in the last pull on the full Drag setup? you need a controll (I understand it may not be the best pipe for the motor theoretically) What are the correction factors? (print them so we can see them next time.
 
#27 ·
I thought I would list these dyno runs here to show a couple of things: 1. Dr Q is not the #1 LT500 guy out there and 2. Pipe development is a long, slow, and expensive process. Matt Shearer spent a lot of time on his "new" OOF SB banshee pipes and it shows! I hope Jim Smart of Passion has the same success with his "new" pipes as well. Hats off to the guys who put in a TON of time so we can have a little more HP.

Jerry Hall has spent over 5 years on the LT500 pipe development and is now on pipe #19.
Yep, JH is a true 2-stroke expert pipe builder. I run one of his engines in a lt500. I also run Q-pipes, and motors in my other Lt500's
Here are a few dyno runs that compare the Hall LT500 pipe to the Dr. Q pipe. For the record, the Q pipe is the 2nd best pipe out there for the LT500. It was hard to find a ture apples to apples comparison but this info. is pretty darn good for the LT500 guys.

The first graph compares the Q pipe to Hall's #14 pipe. Hall's is the blue graph. This is a ported LT500 (not by Hall).

OK, both pipes make around 75hp... very believable.

http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/cgblock/?action=view&current=LT500Pipe14vsQ.jpg


The 2nd graph is of the Q pipe vs. the #16 Hall pipe. Each pipe got 2 back to back runs so you see 4 graphs. The green and purple are the #16 Hall LT500 pipe. These are on a Hall ported "Duner".
Now why do both pipes loose 5-6 hp and now only make 68hp ?
Please explain

http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/cgblock/?action=view&current=LT500DunerPipe16vsQ.jpg

The last graph shows the Hall pipes #16, #17, #18, and #19 in that order on a Hall drag ported LT500 on gas.
Ok, now JH pipe makes almost 95hp on gas ?
Not saying its impossible, but last 90 hp cyl of JH that I saw myself, came off Dale's bike. Cyl lasted only for a few dyno runs before it grenaded(after hitting 90Hp) into a cracked cyl that I examined carefully at Qthon with my own eyes. It was totally fubared

http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=LT500pipecomp16vs17vs18vs19.jpg
Just saying, you cant post dynos without more explanation.
I have talked to Dale many times about JH and Q pipes. I consider Dale a honest and trustworthy source on JH info. He has done dozens(maybe hundreds) of dyno pulls at Jh's dyno, with Jh pipes and cyls, and q pipes.

From our many conversation I call total BS on only a JH pipe(95hp) making 20 more hp than a Q pipe. Maybe a few more or less hp, here and there in the power band, but no way a 20 hp gain with just a pipe change from Q to JH.
Nice try at spinning the dynos to fit your agenda.
How many dyno runs did that 95hp cyl survive for ?
 
#28 · (Edited)
I hope this doesnt turn into a Q against Jerry Hall Thread.. There are just too many differences between the two.


Well, i didnt start this thread, but i have alot of knowledge about these pulls and they are a little on the older side except for the higher hp dynos on a drag motor..

But i will answer allcools questions if thats ok.. I consider Dale a Great friend of mine. I know after i seen this post and called him on the phone he was a little upset that someone posted his dyno numbers for the whole world to see. He has worked hard getting his bike to where it is now and doesnt want people to have the same motor package as him.

First off i didnt see any 20hp differences in any change of any pipes. The differences between any of halls pipes and a hall against a Q pipe is only in different torque curves and different hp ratings at different rpm ranges. And yes allcool, i didnt see any 20hp differences between any pipes.

Second..The 93 hp runs are off of Dales hybrid drag bike.. and this bike runs steady all day long. I have constantly seen this bike make passes over and over on several dune trips as i am sure you (allcool) have when you fly out to glamis to ride.

If i remember correctly (but i could be wrong) allcool your name is Fred? Those dyno numbers are Dale Frys numbers off of his drag bike, call him and tell him his bike and hard work and effort is on a timebomb cylinder.


Dale and i talk about everyday, and we say (just about everyday) that we hope the secret doesnt get out the hp that jerry is capable of extracting from these bikes. Now the cats out of the bag and nobody believes it which is great because now we wont be competeing against bikes on the same caliber as us.


See the crap storm you started Mailman? hahahaha

Now when you need some dyno time and tweaking on your Banshee, Jerry will be too busy to fit you in because he will be building Zilla pipes and porting 500 motors! hahahaha
 
#30 ·
I hope this doesnt turn into a Q against Jerry Hall Thread.. There are just too many differences between the two.


Well, i didnt start this thread, but i have alot of knowledge about these pulls and they are a little on the older side except for the higher hp dynos on a drag motor..

But i will answer allcools questions if thats ok.. I consider Dale a Great friend of mine. I know after i seen this post and called him on the phone he was a little upset that someone posted his dyno numbers for the whole world to see. He has worked hard getting his bike to where it is now and doesnt want people to have the same motor package as him.
I also consider Dale a friend. He is a good guy and a wealth of info on the LT500. I love the line he picks as he leads the pack thru the dunes. And yes I an Fred. Who exactly are you ?

First off i didnt see any 20hp differences in any change of any pipes. The differences between any of halls pipes and a hall against a Q pipe is only in different torque curves and different hp ratings at different rpm ranges. And yes allcool, i didnt see any 20hp differences between any pipes.
What I am saying is the way the op posted the dynos, he implied the last dyno of 95hp was because of the change from Q to JH pipe. His best dyno graph from the Q pipe shows 75hp.
As you know, thats not right and is misleading imo.

Second..The 93 hp runs are off of Dales hybrid drag bike.. and this bike runs steady all day long. I have constantly seen this bike make passes over and over on several dune trips as i am sure you (allcool) have when you fly out to glamis to ride. Yes, his bike runs strong. Hell, all his bikes runs very very strong. Did not know that one of his bikes he was running with us had 95hp. But JH and Dale are some of the only guys I would believe this to possible

If i remember correctly (but i could be wrong) allcool your name is Fred? Those dyno numbers are Dale Frys numbers off of his drag bike, call him and tell him his bike and hard work and effort is on a timebomb cylinder.
Hold on there! Never said that. Just stated a fact about a cyl I personally saw a couple years ago at Q thon. No doubt that JH and Dale might have come up with a cyl that will now hold together at 90+hp.

I never got it on the dyno but have a radical hillshooter cyl from Q that is reported to have close to 90hp.
Once my hybrid is finished, will have it on the dyno... maybe at JH, if he'll have me with a q pipe.... lol



Dale and i talk about everyday, and we say (just about everyday) that we hope the secret doesnt get out the hp that jerry is capable of extracting from these bikes. Now the cats out of the bag and nobody believes it wich is great because now we wont be competeing against bikes on the same caliber as us.


See the crap storm you started Mailman? hahahaha

Now when you need some dyno time and tweaking on your Banshee, Jerry will be too busy to fit you in because he will be building Zilla pipes and porting 500 motors! hahahaha
Hope to see you out at Glamis next fall. Will you be at Qthon ?
 
#31 ·
Geezzzus Chris...what are you doing? You need to get back to work or something..I had this stuff well under wraps. Pretty funny people are already saying "B. S. can't be done on gas".. "it would be a grenade"...now you see why its easier to just go out and kick their ass and go home. Best part is that I expect the new motor(couple weeks out) to run lots better! Maybe I'll give you a better run for the money.. I gotta start racing Banshees only i guess cause their arent any suzukis that are even in the ball park. If I only had an Override Trans.....
 
#32 · (Edited)
Go

Hey Chris,
Very Interesting, gald to see some solid facts on this.

Question, who's bikes are these on?

I noticed that the #16 pipe is the only one pipe available to cross reference and on the 2nd chart it's doing 68.8 & 51.15 and on the last chart the same pipe is doing 89 & 62 respectively, obviously different motors.

I am also assuming both of these motors are JH work so no PV, but even with no PV I'd be interested to see the Q pipe on the higher HP motor vs Jerry's newest pipe, #19, do you have those?

Thanks

Ahhh Dale, gotta love it! :D
________
TRICHOMES
 
#33 ·
All but the first were Jerry Hall built motors right? Im sure a JH motor would run better with a JH pipe than with a Q pipe. And im sure a Q motor would run better with a Q pipe than a JH pipe.

No doubt that both of these guys do amazing work on these old machines, but if all but one of these tests were done on a JH motor, then you cant say that JH is a better builder.

How much does the JH pipe cost? I wouldnt pay $250 more just for a 2 horse power gain.
 
#34 ·
Hey Fred, You are correct about the cylinder the popped like a watermelon..took out a set of cases with it.. sucked bad. This one has been together for two seasons running at high 80's and now up over 90. We have made some changes to the reinforcement and porting in the intake area, seems to be holding up well. I hope will hold up even more as my new motor should make over 100, find out in a couple weeks. I like hearing you have a bad ass Q motor and your welcome to bring it to the Dyno anytime. Lets get it dialed in and go to Glamis!
 
#51 · (Edited)
Hey Dale.

I should have been able to figure it out from the first OP's post it was your dynos.... lol ...
If I knew, would never have brought up that cyl.
But I still would have questioned the way the OP posted those dynos to try and spin his agenda. Those Banshee guys are all the same, trying to start $hit all the time :2: ...lmao.

Anyhow, hope all is well with ya. Can hardly wait to follow you and all the AZ boys around Glamis next fall. Will probably come out middle of the week before the first Q thon and see if we can put my hybrid hillshooter on the dyno. I will call ya first. Patiently waiting for dune season. Ahh, how hot is it out in glamis now ?

Who is jkylnhyde ?
 
#36 ·
Hey just to clarify none of the drag motor runs were made with the Q pipe. The comparisions were done on small reed dune port motors. we have 100's of runs to look at, that is why Hall stuff runs so good..called Research and Development..time consuming and very expensive. Trust me on this... there is no need for any Dyno manipulation of any sort to prove that Hall motors make more HP than anything I know of out there. If ANYONE wants to bring their setup they are welcome anytime, bring your cheer squad, your video camera, your mother-in-law, and plenty of gas..
 
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